Menjawab Clarice Gilbert

[Komen ini aku terima di pos sebelum ini. Clarice Gilbert berkongsi kisah pahitnya dalam perkahwinan yang gagal. Agak menyentuh hati. Aku merasa terpanggil untuk menjawab komen panjang lebar Clarice dan berkongsi pendapat peribadi aku tentang soal perkahwinan antara agama. Pos di bawah ini agak panjang dan juga kontroversi jadi bagi mereka yang agak tertutup nasihat aku ialah, jangan baca.]

Mr Lucius,

Saya ni pembaca hantu blog Lucius semenjak tahun lepas lagi. Memang selama ini tidak pernah bagi komen langsung, baca saja. Tapi kali ni saya terasa mo komen kerana pos Lucius sangat bersangkut-paut dengan diri saya.

Sebelum saya proceed, mo kasi warning awal-awal yang komen saya ni agak panjang juga. Harap Lucius paham. Dan satu lagi maybe I will mix between malay and English through out the writing. I hope its okay.

Well the most interesting part for me bout your post is the one on mix marriage between semenanjung and Sabahan. Sebab isu ini sangkut-paut dengan saya, I have been thru it and I just wanna share it here with you and the readers.

I am a Murut woman, married to a Malay guy from Melaka for 2 years before we finally agreed to go separate ways (bercerai talak satu) early last year. Yes I was a Christian before marrying him. For the sake of marriage I converted to Islam. Now selepas kena cerai talak satu, saya sendiri pun tidak tahu if I am still a Muslim atau tukar balik jadi Christian.

Tough thing kan?

We got to know each other during my study years in semenanjung, at Universiti Malaya. He is already a career guy during that time, 27 years old and I was 24. We dated for 3 years before he finally decided to propose me.

Mula tu memang susah. Macam Lucius cakap dalam pos, we have the differences. The race and religion of course jadi isu yang paling besar. I was reluctant to convert, I grow up as Christian so what do you expect? And marrying him bermakna I am breaking the family tradition. None in our family has ever married a Malay Muslim before.

But he assure me that everything gonna be okay. Of course la he wont be expecting me to tiba-tiba pakai tudung and shits. I mean despite him being a Muslim as you know, he still drinks, gamble (beli nombor) and yes we slept together before getting married.

No issue kan, those kinda things are normal.

So walaupun saya reluctant mulanya, I finally agreed to marry him. I trust he will be reasonable with me, tak terlalu demanding on the religion part and flexible on me being a Sabahan Murut, my lifestyle and my family yang Christian.

The family on both sides, well they are not very enthusiastic with it. His family kinda berat hati and my family pun sama. But again we believe its not going to be a problem, as long as we both love each other the family issue shouldn’t be the batu penghalang.

So I did the conversion thing, belajar about Islam sikit and yes even went thru a painful process to get rid of my butterfly tattoo, becoz he said kubur tak terima my body nanti when I pass away?! And before I can really pronounce the syahadah perfectly, we are married.

As we both working in KL the city become our home base. Things seem pretty cool, he is still the liberal guy I know doing things which I have learnt are sinful and haram to Muslim. I was not being told to wear tudung, sembahyang pun tak kena paksa. But of course la I stayed away from church, I no longer wear my cross necklace because as he said I am a Muslim and no longer a Christian.

Psst, but tell you I still don’t have faith in Islam. Another story.

But I guess this is the thing about the Malay. They can be so open and liberal but yet so close minded on other religion. Macam yang Lucius pernah cakap, Malay can drink, have sex and gamble but then when they see the cross of Christ or heard anything about church they start to become orang alim dan ustaz.

Right?

So he still drinks. But when it comes to Christmas and I begging him to take time off so we both can go back to Sabah and celebrate it with my family, he start giving excuses. And one of it was we are Muslim so there’s no need to celebrate Christmas!

Tapi niat saya balik is just to spend time with family, becoz Christmas is our annual family gathering just like balik kampung for hari raya. I don’t need to go to church or whatever. It’s fine with me.

But not ok to him?!

And even when one of my cousin getting married, and of course la as Christian she getting married at the church, he still refuse to come back to sabah and attend the wedding. I was damn pissed, question is murtad ke kalau masuk church?

His excuse was it’s a Christian punya worship house so Muslim takleh masuk. And plus the wedding ceremony involve some religious ritual which the muslim cant take part.

His ass. I wonder lak drinking beer and gambling tu bukan haram ke dan lagi berdosa? And yet he still does that.

One year into the marriage, I started to feel unhappy with him. I sense he is trying to keep me away from my family. Yet also at the same time I found myself not being accepted by his family. Balik raya, I felt alienated by his huge family of 7 siblings, yang semuanya semenanjung people. Just because I am a non-malay and used to be a Christian.

Bullshit lah!

And I know his mother never approved of our marriage. I happened to discover this myself when she talk to one of his sister yang she have to let him marry me becoz her son dah kemaruk sangat, maybe becoz dah kena sihir with me.

Another bullshit!

But believe me the worst is yet to come. I got pregnant and when I thought this will at least make things better for me and him and his family, it turned out to be a blessing in disguise!

I give birth to a baby boy. And biasalah after labor while still dalam pantang, I prefer to went back to sabah with the baby and stay with my parents. I prefer my mum to look after me and the baby but what I got was a big no-no.

The reason because his family want him to send me to them. Because kalau saya balik sabah the baby gonna grow up in a Christian environment and kena baptized di church dan jadi murtad!

It all went downhill from there. I cant take this anymore, all this effort to pisahkan myself from my family, his paranoia to my family and such. I feel he never try to understand my family and our culture. I think he is behaving like a hypocrite becoz perasan macam dia alim sangat tapi still buat benda yang haram.

All this because him being a malay muslim dari semenanjung, yang memang anti dan takut sangat dengan Christian.

So why bother to marry me at 1st place if he cant take this differences?

It is all the same kan? He met me and thinks he is so cool dating a non-malay and non-muslim. So liberal and open minded in the beginning tapi once they start the family, tiba-tiba rasa insaf and try to be true muslim.

Tapi true on the part yang menguntungkan dia saja la.

We got ourselves into a lot of argument. I demand more rights for myself, right to be with my family, right to be respected by him and right to be fully understood on my culture. He never give a damn bout all that.

What happens next? His family interfere and his mother start telling him it’s a mistake to marry me. And me being a converted muslim apa semua, kononnya tak berakhlak and terbawa-bawa perangai jahat myself when I was a Christian before.

Like his asshole son tu baik sangat.

I had enough. I cant live with him, I cant let him take me away from my beloved family. Saya tak boleh hidup dengan orang yang tak boleh memahami dan menghormati saya, budaya saya dan cara hidup saya.

We went through a lengthy divorce process. Of course la kan the Islamic way. Naik turun mahkamah syariah and yes I tell u, all the time it was like I am the one, the culprit, the perempuan rosak who fail to be a true muslim.

Because I asked for the divorce.

And the law side with him. Even the hak penjagaan of my son was given to him. Because if my baby stay with me he is going to grow up in that Christian environment and jadi murtad like what they are so afraid of.

Apa yang saya dapat? Nothing.

I wasted 2 years of my life with him, 5 if you plus the dating years. I got scar at my back resulting from the painful tattoo removal process. I forgo the dream of every young Christian girl to walk down the aisle of the church with her dad because I chose to marry a muslim guy.

All that for him. And you know what he said to me after we finalize the cerai? He thinks he needs to be with a Malay muslim woman because he need such woman to take care and raise the family in a proper Malay muslim way. Because he is not so good in Islam so he needed someone with good knowledge on the religion to help guide him.

All this while, masa he so eager to ask me to marry him, tak pernah pun occur this entire thing. Why only after we got married?

Perhaps he changed. Maybe as he grow old and having responsibility baru sedar nak jadi alim, nak jadi true muslim nak jadi true Malay.

I don’t mind that. Yes I was willing to learn bout Islam, yes I was willing to listen to him just for the sake of the marriage and our little boy. The only thing that I asked him to tolerate is to accept my family, the differences they have. The only thing I need from him is to take me as I am. Yes I am not a Malay, I am a converted so live with my lacking that’s all.

But I guess not.

So Lucius that’s my story. I just wanna share it with you because I can see you are different. I don’t know if you are open and liberal now but mellow down once you start your family. We never know.

But knowing you through your blog, I guess maybe you are indeed different. You seems to be open to Christianity and other religion, you are more tolerant and hell you are even critical of your own religion (you muslim kan?).

Yes it didn’t work out between me and him because there was lack of tolerance, lack of understanding and willingness to accept each other differences. Like what you said. I agreed with what you wrote. Any semenanjung people who wish to marry sabahan, especially the non-muslim sabahan need to be able to tolerate, understand and willing.

I’d be lying if I tell you I have no regret with the decision I made. Because of what happen I quit my job, come back here to sabah to live with my family. I need them, their support. And yes the environment here, the openness here makes me feel better and able to assimilate (pinjam kata Lucius) as I have been before.

It’s painful of course. Kalau saya mahu jumpa anak saya, I have to go there to semenanjung. I can’t take him back here even for a week or two because ‘the lack of Islamic environment in the family’, as what the syariah court decides.

Him? He is happy now married to a Malay woman yang semestinya true Islam. Just like what he need I guessed.

I guess that’s all. Panjang saya membebel. I have to create a different blogger ID, privatize it because kalau anonymous I don’t think you would entertain me (not that I need attention). But privatize because I know there will be assholes like him who will going to attack me personally.

Sorry I took kinda long commenting. But I just want to share what I have experienced on this mix marriage thing.

You don’t have to reply this but yes I do hope if you can say something on this. You always have a different view on thing and I would love to know what you think.

Thanks for the time. Saya rasa macam menulis untuk cik sri siantan pulak.

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Ms Clarice,

Pertama sekali, terima kasih kerana berkongsi secara panjang lebar pengalaman anda. Saya merasa terharu dan bersimpati dengan apa yang anda telah lalui. Harapan saya hidup anda kini lebih baik dan bahagia bersama keluarga anda.

As you mix your writing with English, I shall do the same too. Yes sometimes it is much easier to deliver the message across in English.

Before I go further, in no other way that I am next to Cik Sri Siantan, the famous love guru who can solve any of your love or marriage problems. Having said that I can’t provide the solution to what have happened. But I will try to share with everyone reading this blog of my take on mix-marriage or interfaith marriage, especially the one involving a Christian like you and a Muslim like your ex-husband.

So here we go.

Kata orang cinta itu buta. More so when two individual with different background, culture and faith met each other and fall in love.

You mentioned you converted for the sake of marriage. Honestly I have nothing against that. Undang-undang negara kita mengkehendaki bukan Islam untuk memeluk Islam sebelum mengahwini pasangan Muslim mereka. Dan saya tahu ada segelintir yang melakukan ini sekadar untuk memenuhi syarat.

There should be no issue on that, so long as both sides mutually agreed to respect each others’ beliefs. But the question will be either you conversion is clear to him just for the sake of marriage, or you conversion to him lebih dari sekadar untuk berkahwin.

Kalau bekas suami mahukan anda untuk benar-benar menjadi Muslim, maka saya akan katakan tanggungjawab mengajar dan membimbing anda terletak di bahu beliau. But in the story you share with me I failed to see him doing that. He leaves you free on your own and he himself was not being a true practicing Muslim.

So I would assume both of you understood it well that the conversion is for the sake of marriage. He will be the liberal and open Muslim like you said and you are the Christian at heart though not obviously practicing it.

Liberal and open Muslim. Ingin saya tekankan di sini konsep liberal dalam konteks Melayu kadangkala agak kabur. Boleh minum, boleh berjudi dan boleh mengamalkan seks luar perkahwinan, tapi belum tentu sanggup makan babi kerana ianya haram atau menyentuh anjing kerana ianya najis.

I know, because I have tons of Malay friends who are like that. The kind of friend who question my action of rescuing a dog out of monsoon drain because the poor animal is najis. This same person is the one who drinks and frequent the massage parlor for sex.

Why on earth is the Malay Muslim thinking in such a way? Because Islam is entrenched in them like culture, not faith. Kami semua adalah born Muslim, membesar dalam Islam dan majoriti berharap akan mati sebagai Muslim.

That will explain why Melayu yang minum atau fuck around still have problem going into a church or seeing the cross symbol. Its just like babi dan anjing, very un-Melayu to them, it go against the Malay culture itself. And part of the Malay culture is Islam. You know how it is, not all Muslims are Malay, but all Malays are expected to be Muslim.

And I blame this on their own lack of knowledge. Sebenarnya tidak berdosa masuk gereja, tidak berdosa juga melihat lambang salib. Tidak berdosa jika mahu baca Injil, dan tidak berdosa jika mahu berkumpul bersama keluarga mentua di hari Krismas. Islam tidak menghalang semua perkara tersebut.

Tetapi berdosa untuk bekas suami anda jika dia tahu anda kekal mempercayai Kristian tetapi tidak berbuat apa-apa. Either his judgement has been clouded or he just being bloody stupid.

Or he might be liberal enough to believe in interfaith marriage. But as what we read from your story, he is obviously not.

You are right. He should have not stop you celebrating Christmas or going to church wedding thinking those are sinful yet he still drink and gamble, obvious no-no in Islam.

In my opinion I think your ex-husband wasn’t able to tolerate the differences between you and him. And so he chose to alienate you from your family, perhaps because of the fact he can’t handle your family being Christian. And same goes to his family, who are unable to accept just because you are non-Malay and non-Muslim.

I am sorry that it all went downhill for you after you gave birth to your son. It sure was hard and painful to you.

You mentioned he suddenly decided to be alim sedikit and expecting you to do the same. And you did mention you are willing to do that for the sake of the marriage and your little boy. I don’t know whether he did try to guide you or let you find your way in Islam alone. Again I would say if he wants you to be a practicing Muslim and you are willing, then it is his duty to help you on that.

My opinion on his change of attitude after the birth of the little boy? He went through the self realization phase like what happened to most Malay Muslim.

I did mention to you earlier, Malays are born Muslim, raised within Islam and expect themselves to die as a Muslim. Maybe the time come to him when he suddenly realized he can’t do this interfaith marriage anymore, because it goes against Islam.

It is exactly like drinking beer, having sex around or gambling. Sampai masa orang-orang ini merasa terpanggil untuk bertaubat, lebih lagi bila rumah kata pergi dan kubur kata mari. Sure he doesn’t want to go to hell, so it’s time for him to repent I guess.

Which also explain why out of sudden he thinks a Malay wife will be much better to help him raise the little boy in a proper Malay Muslim environment?

Yes, marriage is not a few years affair. Today’s promise may turn into tomorrow’s curse. In the beginning he was so driven by the romantic idealism of interfaith marriage, at later days he came to realize such thing will drag him to hell.

People change. More so for an individual like him. The so called liberal mind and openness was nothing more than just young age fling and naughtiness. The willingness to have an interfaith marriage with you was nothing more than sheer act of desperation to be with you.

I agree with you. Malays from Semenanjung who wish to marry Sabahan who are non-Muslim should be more tolerant, understanding and willing to compromise.

Even marriage between Semenanjung and Sabahan Muslim sometime fail to work, just because of the cultural gulf.

You mentioned about me being open to Christianity, more tolerant and even critical of my own religion. So what will be my take on interfaith marriage?

Setahun zaman tadika saya berlaku di dalam Gereja Lutheran. Dua tahun zaman persekolahan di sebuah sekolah Methodist yang dipelopori mubaligh Kristian. Saya membesar dalam keadaan di kelilingi masyarakat Cina, menggemari Chee Cheong Fun dan kerap makan di restoran Cina yang diragui status halalnya. Saya juga pernah bersekolah tiga tahun di sekolah agama dan sentiasa bersikap kritis dan tidak menerima bulat-bulat apa yang disogok dalam Pendidikan Islam.

Saya baca Quran dan juga Injil.

The end result is I grow up being different.

So to me interfaith marriage shouldn’t be a problem. Yes I may sound unrealistic and impossible but I personally don’t see any problem with it.

What any couple (Muslim and Christian) need for interfaith marriage to work is the belief in their own self that it can be done. They need to have full confidence in the interfaith marriage; completely sure that what they are doing is right. Of course it is important as well to outline how the union will be like and how the family will be raise.

What if I (yes I am a Muslim) am to marry someone outside my religion?

She will have the right to practice her religion. She may go for Sunday’s mass, celebrate Christmas with the family and do what many good Christians do. As much as I respect her rights to practice her religion she shall also be respectful of mine.

What will the religion of the kids going to be?

I believe marriage an equal partnership of two individuals. Both I and my partner shall raise the kids with equal Islamic and Christian teaching. It will be our duty to explain them on the interfaith marriage. When they reach the legal age for them to decide on their own faith, they shall do so with none of us going to force the kids to choose one above another.

But someone out there going to say, oh Lucius you will grow old one day and realize you can’t do this anymore. You will be afraid of the prospect of life in the hereafter, knowing you have sinned and will be thrown to hell.

I do what I believe. Maybe I will go to hell. That will be unfortunate for me but I live my life doing what I believe. At least I go to hell with my Christian wife.

To me personally, I think interfaith marriage is right. And I am entitled to my own opinion.

Yes I can hear someone shouting murtad and infidel back there. Thank you!

Now that I have talked bout idealism and what we believe in, let’s see how interfaith marriage can really work here in Islamic country like Malaysia, for the benefit of other readers especially the non-Muslim who wish to convert.

Mind you, the legal implication can be torturous.

Sesiapa yang menukar agamanya kepada Islam hendaklah sedar bahawa mereka tidak boleh kembali ke agama asal. Setiap proses pertukaran ke agama Islam melibatkan pendaftaran individu tersebut sebagai Muslim di Jabatan Agama Negeri dan di Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara. Malah Mykad anda juga akan menyatakan dengan jelas Islam sebagai agama anutan.

Implikasi dari rekod di Mykad anda dan juga pendaftaran anda sebagai Muslim meletakkan anda di dalam situasi di mana kembali mengamalkan ajaran agama asal adalah hampir mustahil. Anda boleh didakwa jika berdoa di gereja atau memakai lambang keagamaan yang ditegah oleh penguatkuasa agama Islam.

In the event that you divorce with your Muslim partner, you are not allowed to seek marriage with non-Muslim. Even the right of custody on the children will not be yours if you attempted to convert out of Islam, or found to be drifting away from Islamic teaching after the divorce.

Your non-Muslim relatives will lose their rights on property or money left by you upon your death. And your body will be buried at the Muslim cemetery in accordance with Islamic rites even if you haven’t been practicing Islam for years.

I know it sucks. I don’t agree to it myself. But as you said, I can be critical of my own religion.

On the other hand it is not so much of a hassle for the Muslim who wishes to marry their non-Muslim partner. In fact the law and policy seems to favor such thing. The kids of mix marriage between a Malay and non-Malay will be automatically registered as Malays. They are also expected to grow up being a Muslim and enrolled into Islamic classes at school.

As with any, the marriage between a Muslim and the converted partner is registered with the religious department of the state. Thus creating the nature that any domestic dispute or disagreement will be referred to the Shariah Court under Islamic marital laws.

Dalam kebanyakan kes, ia meletakkan pihak bukan Islam dalam serba kekurangan jika berlaku kes perceraian, tuntutan harta atau jagaan ke atas anak.

Seperti apa yang dilakukan oleh bekas suami anda.

Semua ini menjadikan idea perkahwinan antara agama sesuatu yang hampir mustahil untuk dilakukan.

Benar. Kecuali kedua-dua pihak mempunyai keyakinan dan jujur dalam matlamat mereka untuk hidup bersama biarpun berlainan pegangan.

For the non-Muslim, you must have full confidence in your Muslim partner that he or she is honest and believe in the concept of interfaith marriage. For the Muslim, you must be sure living in union with a non-Muslim is truly what you want not for 5 or 10 years to come, but for the rest of your life, and you are willing to take the risk and believe what you do is right from your religious point of view.

Seperkara lagi, perkahwinan bukan janji sebulan atau setahun dua. Ia adalah ikatan yang sebaiknya untuk seumur hidup. Janji kamu hari ini mungkin menjadi sumpahan hari esok. Jadi bagi mereka yang biarpun ada sekelumit rasa tidak yakin pada perkahwinan antara agama, lebih baik jangan.

Jangan hanya kata ya atau boleh kerana desakan mahu kahwin, tetapi selepas berkahwin nanti baru tersedar kita tidak berupaya untuk hidup bersama dengan kepercayaan yang berbeza.

To simplify it, interfaith marriage is only for those who believe that no matter what sort of religion you practice or what sort of God’s name you worship, the most fundamental idea is that you believe in God. And that’s good enough.

“This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.”
Al – Maidah 5:5

“For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.”
1 Corinthians 7:14

Saya ambil dua ayat di atas, dari Quran dan juga Injil. Dua ayat yang menjadi dukungan kepada mereka yang percaya kepada perkahwinan antara agama. Tapi ingat saya bukan pakar agama. Membesar dalam Islam tapi bukan pengamal yang baik. Tahu tentang Kristian tetapi bukanlah penganutnya.

Pokok pangkalnya setiap agama menyeru kepercayaan kepada Tuhan. Cara mungkin berbeza tapi intipatinya tetap sama.

Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed.

Harapan saya untuk anda, Ms Clarice, ialah kebahagiaan dan keredhaan Tuhan di hari mendatang.